The creative path is full of wonder and play; but sadness, depression, and grief are inevitable parts of the human experience. Rachael and Lauren return by discussing how they navigate these very real seasons in life while remaining committed to what they are passionate about. As we face down ever-increasing uncertainty and loss, does art still matter? Your creative gals say YES! This chat explores art practice as a healing balm and energizing force in our lives and communities.
The creative path is full of wonder and play; but sadness, depression, and grief are inevitable parts of the human experience. Rachael and Lauren return by discussing how they navigate these very real seasons in life while remaining committed to what they are passionate about. As we face down ever-increasing uncertainty and loss, does art still matter? Your creative gals say YES! This chat explores art practice as a healing balm and energizing force in our lives and communities.
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The transcript for this episode can be found here!
Rachael: This episode is brought to you by me, Rachael Renae, your creativity coach. Did you know that I offer one-on-one sessions? One of my favorite things is to help my fellow chaotic creatives gain a little bit of clarity in their creative practices and their lives. So you can book a session today, we can develop or refine your creative project idea, we can clarify your creative goals, we can map out what your big, juicy life looks like. Or we can build a system for prioritizing play and making it easy for you to incorporate. If you'd like to book a session, you can visit RachaelRenae.com/coaching.
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Lauren: Oh yeah, Chaotic Creatives, TM, “bummed hole”.
[Intro Music]
Lauren: Hello and welcome to Chaotic Creatives, the show about embracing the chaos that comes with living a creative life.
Rachael: We're your hosts, two self-proclaimed, chaotic, creative gals. I'm Rachael Renae @RachaelRenae on Instagram. I'm an artist, a creativity coach, and your internet hype gal.
Lauren: And I am Lauren Hom. Some of you might know me as Hom Sweet Hom all over the internet. I am a lettering artist, muralist, and most recently chef.
Rachael: Welcome to season three.
Lauren: I can't believe I've been doing this for three seasons. We did 20 episodes already.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: Wild.
Rachael: I feel like we just started.
Lauren: I know. Wow.
Rachael: Look at us.
Lauren: Good for us.
Rachael: Good for us. Even though we're very joyous starting out a season.
Lauren: Yeah, weird intro for this topic.
Rachael: It's all about balance, baby. We are going to talk about being sort of low emotionally and the navigating low emotional energy or depressive episodes. And still having the desire and kind of forcing ourselves to create as a way out of that.
Lauren: Yeah, I think being creative while being down is kind of the gist of this episode. Because when you are a creative person, you kind of are always thinking about your next project or what you want to make. But life sometimes takes a huge shit on you. And yeah, that's something that you have to contend with, right? And so you might be in like the middle of a creative project and then something like family stuff comes up or a breakup or just like stressful things in life. And how do you navigate creating and dealing with life at the same time?
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: Especially when, you know, I think it's tough too when you're going through kind of a down period and you're scrolling on Instagram, right? And it seems like everyone else is making their projects and it makes you even more down.
Rachael: Yeah, it's really tough. We're talking about this today because as we were kind of thinking about topics to cover for season three, I was sharing with Lauren that I have been in a pretty low depressive episode, just don't have a lot of energy to create. And then like you said, that cycle kind of repeats itself because I want to create things, but I just don't have the energy. And so then I shame myself for not allowing myself to create. And then the cycle just repeats.
And we actually talked about this, I just wrapped up my third cohort of the prioritized play workshop.
Lauren: Congrats.
Rachael: Thank you. And we were talking about this because so much of the workshop is about identifying how you're spending your time, making sure that you are prioritizing your play, giving your creativity a path to come out. But one thing that isn't covered directly in the workshop is like, well, what do you do if you are in a depressive episode? Or you're tired or you're sick or something like an emergency comes up. Or as you've said, life takes a shit on you, so eloquently stated.
And I think what came out of the conversation from the workshop is that rest gives space for creativity. So if you're feeling low, if I'm feeling low, allowing myself to rest without shame or guilt is something that is anti-capitalist, like anti-productivity. Because I think we're all kind of trained like you should be doing something, this is your day off, this is when you need to get all your chores done so that you can be productive all week. And sometimes you just need to veg out on the couch. It's those times that are beneficial for allowing rest to happen. And you have to be able to rest to be able to have the energy to create.
And then on the other side of things, I feel like creating, even if it's just a little bit each day, starting a project, working on something for yourself that you're excited about is a path to kind of pull yourself out of it.
Lauren: Yes, a hundred percent. I think it's important to differentiate, you and I talked about this, between clinical depression too. If you're actually having a depressive episode and you need to take care of yourself, or if you're just feeling bummed out too. You struggled with depression, I've never been clinically depressed, but I've gone through tough times as most people have. And I think learning your own cycles and emotions to know when you actually need to take a beat and take care of your mental health and take care of yourself, and then when you need to just rest and recharge. Because I always tell my students, your health comes first. Like don't bully yourself into doing that project just because you said you would.
Like you said, I think we're conditioned in a capitalist society to be like, "Well, I'm only valuable if I'm productive. If I said I was going to do this amount of projects or whatnot, I got to follow through. Otherwise I'm not ... I got to follow through." And no, you need to take care of yourself first and foremost.
But yeah, like you said, at the same time, when you're feeling low, I've experienced what I've been feeling low, especially when I'm in a doom-scroll-y kind of state. It becomes this self-fulfilling thing where I'm consuming a lot of bad news and I'm feeling extra bad about the world. And then I still have a desire to create because all creative people do. But then when I think about the projects I want to make, if they are like more lighthearted or if I just want to make for fun, I shame myself thinking like, "This isn't important work, therefore you shouldn't do it." And then I feel even worse. Where actually the way back to feeling like myself and feeling in touch with my creativity and the world around me is by making the stuff that I want to make. And so I always have to remind myself that the path back to me and the path back to feeling like myself in a part of the world is creative work.
Rachael: Yep. Creative play, I think, is nourishing. Whatever that looks like for each of us. As you were talking, it reminded me that yes, I have done some ... and I also want to say before we're how many minutes into the first episode and I'm going to do a side quest. But I think part of what I'm feeling in this current moment is like seasonal depression, as well. And I think I've mentioned in previous seasons, previous episodes about actually paying attention to the seasons because-
Lauren: Yeah, coming out of winter.
Rachael: Nature, we hibernate in the winter. And I have a tendency to force myself to do a lot in the first few months of the year because I love that fresh year, fresh calendar year energy. But then I overdo it. And I think part of what I'm feeling is the ADHD burnout. And part of it is seasonal depression. And-
Lauren: Merging together into one perfect storm.
Rachael: Merging together to form clinical depression. And I am really good at recognizing these patterns in myself. There are things that happen where I don't have a tidy space, or I realize it's been several days since I've showered or I don't have an appetite. There are ... I am, me and my therapist have worked through like what my symptoms are of like when I'm in these episodes. And so I'm really good at noticing it and taking care of it. But also there's the rest component, but then also forcing myself to, yeah, get off my phone and just do something. Even if I do it for five minutes, for 10 minutes.
When you were talking, it reminded me that I was working on a quilt for one of my friends as a gift. And I told myself I was going to get it to her for Christmas and I didn't. And so I was like, all right, Valentine's Day it is. And I set a goal for myself. I don't know if I shared ... I don't think I shared this on our goal setting episode last season. But I want to finish one sewing project each month. Because I have a tendency to start things chaotic, creative, and not finish them. And it's something that I would like to strengthen, like a skill that I want to be better at is finishing. So having this goal of completing a sewing project each month, even if it's something small, is going to help me to work on that.
And so I told myself, "Okay, Valentine's Day, I'm getting this done." And I confirmed that she was going to come over and I was like, "Okay, I have to get it done for this time." And I was feeling like really, really bummed and I watched a really sad movie while I quilted. And I was literally sobbing just like quilting. But I got it done and it made me feel good to give it to her and to finish this project and take pictures of it. And so it's like, I think creative play and creative projects, especially personal creative projects are very healing. And we can acknowledge that like creativity can come from low energy and it's a through line to our lives, not just when we're feeling really good and energized. Does that make sense? Am I getting too sad?
Lauren: No, you're not getting too sad. Crying while quilting is not-
Rachael: Yeah, sobbing. Truly like-
Lauren: Sounds a little dangerous, but no, it's not getting too sad.
I think it's different for everybody, right? Because you don't want to force yourself to finish a project if you're really struggling. I think a lot of creativity is nourishing and fills up your cup. Oftentimes the satisfaction of completing a project is a little like spark of motivation that can make us feel like, ooh, I made that thing, that feels good. And can kind of get us out of a funk. I also think there's a lot of value in making stuff for friends. Like you said, even having a, I think, self-imposed deadlines, I call them gentle loving deadlines, right? They're not like, we need this ASAP, like client deadlines that feel really harsh. They're just like, hey, I know I want to get this done. So how can I anchor this to something to get it done? So whether it's a friend's birthday or like you said, Valentine's Day. Kristle made me a shirt, I made Kristle a set of cups and that felt like a really nice-
Rachael: Loved them.
Lauren: Exchange ... thank you. I was really proud of them.
Rachael: They're very cool. I screenshotted your story. I could have just texted you for a picture. I was like, oh, I don't want to forget this.
Lauren: I texted Kristle, but I was like, you need to promise me you're actually going to drink out of them because the cycle of creativity won't be complete for me until-
Rachael: They're used.
Lauren: I know you've used them.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: yeah, yeah. And I recently was gifted a cutting board that a friend made for me.
Rachael: Cool.
Lauren: And I found myself doing the same thing though, where I was like, it's so beautiful. You made it, I'm not going to touch it. And he was like, "What the fuck?"
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: He was like, "I need you to use it." And I was like, "Oh, okay. Fine."
Rachael: Yeah. The special things are meant to be used.
Lauren: Yes. Things are meant to be used for sure.
Rachael: I love that. I'm thinking about all the times where I forced myself to do something creative in an effort to push past whatever kind of slump I was in. Versus recognizing, okay, I actually don't think I'm capable of doing something. And I think it just comes from practice and self-reflection. But I went to the ceramic studio for the first time in several weeks this week and I was like, okay, it's still light out. You cannot go lay in your bed and read right now. And that's what I've been doing all winter is I'll get into bed at 6:30 or 7:00.
Lauren: Oh yeah, I have text message proof from you.
Rachael: Ooh. And yes, I'm like [inaudible 00:13:14]-
Lauren: Because it's dark in the winter-
Rachael: It's dark.
Lauren: By like 6:30.
Rachael: And like I'm trying to recognize like, okay, it's dark, I'm cold, I'm tired. I'm not going to go to bed right now, but I'm just going to read. It's restful, I'm feeling nourished by this practice. But it was like 4:30 and I was like, "You can't be done with your day right now. Go do something."
So I got dressed, getting dressed always makes me feel better. I went to the studio and I was like, "Okay, just stay for like 30 minutes. Just go look at what projects you have in progress or chat with somebody because the community there is so great." And I stayed for like four hours because I got on a roll, I chatted with people, I started listening to an audiobook. I was making stuff and feeling good, and I was like, "This is why I did this." So recognizing when it's good to force yourself to kind of do something and when you actually need rest. It's tough.
Lauren: It's so funny because a lot of what we've talked about on this podcast about like, you know, getting yourself to do your projects when you're a chaotic creative is basically the same advice that like gym bros give of just get your ass [inaudible 00:14:26]-
Rachael: Just show up every day.
Lauren: Put your gym clothes out and your running shoes out before you go to bed. Or like sleep in your running clothes and like be ready to go.
But like what they're trying to say is like, give yourself the best chance. Like put yourself in the environment to just be there and like settle in. And like worst case scenario, you're there for 30 minutes.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: But like if it's something that you intuitively know that you want, like to be creative, right? I don't want to go to the gym, but I would love to go to the ceramic studio. Getting yourself there is the hard part, right? And like you said, you might strike up a conversation, you might just trim a pot, like do one little thing. It ends up being better than if you hadn't gone. And I think that practice is ... a lot of times creativity can feel like, oh, I'm only going to be creative when I feel like it. But what most seasoned creative people who either do it for a living or who have an actual dedicated creative practice, even if it's just recreational. It's called a creative practice because it's a practice and you actually just do it as more of a routine. Where even if you don't feel like it, you're like, "Okay, this is just part of my routine. I show up, I sit down to sketch, or I sit down to write, or I sit down to go to the ceramic studio and whatever comes, comes."
And like you were saying too, not necessarily forcing it, but just gently showing up, right? I think there's nothing worse than knowing you want to rest and then spending the day ... your resting day thinking about being productive. You actually have to practice allowing yourself to rest.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah.
Rachael: I think-
Lauren: It's a skill.
Rachael: It is. And I think it's something like in every single creativity book I've read, that's what they say. You have to show up. And I think in my workshop I referenced something that Steven Pressfield says from the War of Art. And I always say The Art of War and I'm like, no, it's a play on that. And then I get confused in my head and I'm like, no, it is of art. Anyway, he says something along the lines of like procrastination is your biggest enemy when it comes to your creative practice and your creative career because ... and we can link the actual quote, I'm going to butcher it. But he says something like, "The thing that stops you from creating your masterpiece is you saying that you'll start tomorrow." It's not, I'm never going to write a symphony. It's I'm going to write my symphony and I'll start tomorrow. Because once you're in that habit of doing it, putting it off, putting it off, putting off, you're never going to build up that practice.
And you're right, it is like any other healthy practice where you write, whether it's eating healthier, going to the gym. Just showing up is most of the battle. And I think telling yourself, okay, even if I don't create anything good, even if I just go sit in that space, even if I write a sentence, if I'm a writer. Just doing the practice and showing up is so much of it. And in that repeated effort, I think there is healing.
Lauren: Hey, Lauren here. Want to add muralists to your ever-growing list of creative titles? Well then you're in luck because this episode is brought to you by Mural Painting for Designers, my online class that teaches you how to plan, paint and price murals of your very own. Gain the confidence to pick up a paintbrush, start adding murals to your portfolio now instead of someday. And start painting the large-scale artwork that you've always dreamed of doing. Enrollment is open until May 21st. So head to HomSweetHom.com/classes or click on the link in the episode description to learn more. Okay, now back to the show.
I've often found that when I'm feeling bummed, whatever ... it's actually an interesting window because when I'm feeling like low energy, but I'm also inherently creative, whatever I feel like making, it's usually the lowest barrier to entry. I always tell myself whatever I'm feeling pulled towards ... I know myself well enough at this point. Whatever I'm feeling pulled towards creatively while I'm feeling down, I should just do that. That is what I should do to get me to that next dopamine hit, I guess, to slowly pull myself out of the bummed hole that I've been in. I'm so sorry, that sounded so awful. But I, instead of ... oh no. Oh no, I'm so sorry Rachael.
Rachael: It just like it had a delayed hit for me and I was like, wow, she didn't even mean it. You can power through, don't react. And then I couldn't. Not bummed hole.
Lauren: Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, Chaotic Creatives TM, bummed hole.
Rachael: Okay.
Lauren: I'm a child.
Rachael: I'm ... same obsessed. You just need to do a podcast with your friend and then you'll get out of your bummed hole.
Lauren: I mean, kind of. To really bring it full circle, you approached me last year about doing this podcast. And I had within the last couple months, just gotten back from my year in culinary school. But I had also gone through the ending of a seven-year relationship. And so I had these two things going on simultaneously where I had just completed a huge creative goal that I had set for myself, I was feeling really great about that. But I also was going through heartbreak and navigating a big life change. And so it was a creative high coupled with intense grief. And both things happen ... it all happens at once, right?
Rachael: It does, it does.
Lauren: That's life.
Rachael: I feel like ... yeah. I journaled about that this weekend because I feel like I've been experiencing very high highs and very low lows. And it's wild and it's so human that we experience these things-
Lauren: And I think creative people-
Rachael: At the same time.
Lauren: Creative people feel it really deeply too.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah.
Rachael: Big time. A lot of feels, a lot of feels happening. Yeah, I think it's interesting when we're talking about dragging ourselves out of these low energy moments, I think seeing the small efforts of like, okay, I'm going to go in my basement and just look at what kind of fabric I have and see if any ideas spark. Like the tiniest little slivers of dopamine are enough to bring it back to the gym bro analogy, to put a knot in your rope that you're pulling yourself up. Have you ever tried to ... did you have to climb a rope in gym class?
Lauren: No, luckily we didn't have to do that.
Rachael: We did not because I grew up in the middle of nowhere. But I did do CrossFit for a while when I first moved here. And we had to climb a rope with no knots, though, you had to swing your leg around and you had to wear high socks so it didn't give you rope burn. And I'm like, why are we doing this? But I was also very strong. Anyway. You talking about this is like, should I go back to the gym? Should I start doing that again?
Lauren: You do whatever you want to do.
Rachael: I do feel like moving my body helps with my depression also.
Lauren: I mean, okay, on that note, I see plenty of people online talking about this, I've talked with friends about this. It is infuriating, like when you actually are sad. It's infuriating how healing it is to just go on a walk or move your body or just drink some water and get some sunlight. The basic things that people tell you to do, like when you're actually feeling depressed, you're just like, fuck that. Like that's like so ... like how could you say that? But then when you actually do it, you're like, oh, then I feel better.
Rachael: Yeah. I'm like, oh, I actually forced myself to eat something instead of just leaning into this no appetite. Wow. I am a houseplant. I need water and sunshine and my mood changes.
Lauren: Yeah.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: You got to give yourself ... like you got to set the conditions and like give yourself the best chance to like feel good and/or create.
Rachael: Okay, here's a question for you.
Lauren: Yep.
Rachael: So I had enough of a motivating thought to go to my community center where there's like a few treadmills, some weights and stuff. And when I get into audiobook mode and I'm like, I will do anything that's mindless so that I can sit and listen to my audiobook. Like I'll clean the house just because I can't listen and like think at the same time. So I can't be like noodling on a project because I'll stop listening to the audiobook because I'm-
Lauren: No input output at the same time.
Rachael: Yeah. So it has to be mindless. And I was like, I'm cold. I think sweating would be good. I'll go walk on the treadmill at the gym and just listen to my audiobook. And I was so proud of myself, got dressed, grabbed everything, went to the gym, got there, realized I forgot my shoes. And I really sat there for a while and was like, am I going to go home and go get my shoes and try this again? And I did not. So I want to know, if you went through the energy of like getting dressed and getting to the place and then forgot your shoes, would you go back and get them when you live four minutes away from the gym?
Lauren: Can you ... is it a faux pas to walk barefoot?
Rachael: Okay, lots of people did say that. Because I asked on Instagram, I was like, "Who's on my team here?"
Lauren: I'm only asking as a Californian who grew up near the beach, barefoot is like fine.
Rachael: I think with socks it would not have been a faux pas. But I have bad feet and can't do that. Because I wear orthotics and I would get shin splints, my feet would hurt the next day because I have really flat feet. So if they're not supported then ... yeah, anyway. A lot of people were like, "Just wear the shoes you're wearing." And it was like my big wet winter boots, you can't walk on ... you're going to ruin the machine. And then a bunch of other people said, "Go in your socks." Bless all of you who have healthy feet. So yeah, that makes sense. Go barefoot. Okay. I have another question for you.
Lauren: Yep.
Rachael: We're veering off from the depression topic. Do you want to talk about any other low energy creative stuff before I ask you this next question?
Lauren: Is this a far veer? Is this what you're asking?
Rachael: No, but it's not directly related. It's the question that I told you earlier.
Lauren: The movie one?
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: Okay, so I do think it's related.
Rachael: Okay.
Lauren: Let me try to give you a good segue.
Rachael: Okay. Thank you.
Lauren: Okay, so this is going be a horrible segue.
Rachael: It's okay, we're going there. I was ready to take it with no segue.
Lauren: Sure. Like creating when you're sad. I was going to ... when we were first brainstorming this topic, the thing that came to mind, it's a story I've been sharing in a recent talk I've been giving. I don't know, a year into lockdown, I found myself feeling pretty sad on the couch. Like I'm a night owl, so I was up late and I like had a weird emotional reaction. I was on YouTube and I got served a ... oh god, this is so dorky. I got served a, all time low music video.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: But it was like a new one because they hadn't made music in a while as far as I knew. And I hadn't listened to them in a while. And I watched it and I like had a full on like meltdown watching these like probably in their late thirties, like white boys playing emo music. And I was like, it's so cool seeing people doing what they love. And I just had this epiphany, I was like, it actually like ... I was like, is doing what you love the most healing thing for yourself and others? And I was like, I think it might be.
Rachael: I think it is.
Lauren: Prior to watching that video, I was up like 2:00 AM Googling, "Why does art matter?" Because I was like having a fucking existential crisis because the world was on fire, like lockdown, like Black Lives Matter protests. Like it just felt like everything was bad. And I was like, oh my goodness. Like how can I make the fun art that I want to make when I'm painfully aware?
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: Not that I wasn't aware before, but I was like extra painfully aware because I think we were all very online in that time. And I just was like, I don't know if I can even do design anymore.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: But then I watched that all time low music video and I was just like sobbing on the couch. And because of that I was like, I think I should ... I'm going to go out on a limb even though like I'm not feeling great and just like make something that I want to make. And I did my taking back Sunday project, which was recreating like classic emo album artwork as ice cream sundaes, combining food and like art photo styling, which I love. And it gave me that boost of dopamine and creative energy that I needed.
And I think it is a skill that you cultivate giving yourself permission to do the thing that you know that you want to do. Because oftentimes we have an idea of the stuff we want to make, we just don't allow ourselves to make it for a myriad of reasons. Whether it's what other people will think of us, what we think of ourselves. Oftentimes that's the stuff that's holding us back, which is the segue I wanted to give you to question.
Rachael: That's a good segue. And before I hit you with the question, which you already know what the question is, what you're saying is one of the lessons in my workshop. Where it's like you have to admit to yourself what you actually want, first of all. Because I feel like so many of us feel that we're not allowed to even want the thing, let alone let ourselves pursue it. Like in the workshop I talk about how I like getting my photo taken. I like my outfits, I like posing, I guess.
Lauren: Yeah.
Rachael: And I was like embarrassed to admit that I wanted more photos of myself taken, like working with photographers and doing fun photo shoots, like that's really fun for me. And then when I did the style challenges, I allowed myself to do that. And it was under the guise of like, oh, well I'm showing up for style.
Lauren: Yeah.
Rachael: And then I gave myself permission to realize like, oh, I like having my photo taken. And then once I admitted to myself that I liked that and wanted that, and then took the next step and allowed myself to pursue that. Like that's how my creative career kind of took off.
Lauren: It opens up doors for other things.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: A hundred percent. And what you said, it relates to what I talk about a lot where it's like if you give yourself the container of a project, it takes some of the onus off of you and you're like, I'm doing my challenge, I'm doing my project. Therefore, it gives you a reason why you're doing it. Versus like, I'm just posting a picture of myself or I'm just styling some ice cream. It really does help.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah.
Rachael: And this is a case where labels are beneficial. I think so much of what I work on and you too is showing people that we're allowed to want the things that we want. And before I ask you the question, one of the things that ... same timeframe like COVID started, Black Lives Matter, we were all online realizing that we, at least for me, I was like, I am not aware enough of how I can benefit my community and like really show up. I was kind of just like very passively existing in terms of like community organizing and politics and stuff.
And then same thing, I was like, what if anything that I do matters? Like how could I possibly make silly little cards? At the time I still had my stationary business. And I was talking to my therapist about this and she was like, you pursuing the thing that you love allows you to like shine so brightly that you show other people that they can pursue what they love. And that web of influence of like giving people permission makes everyone more fulfilled. Like if everyone is doing that for their web of people, ultimately we're more empathetic and more creative. And when we're fulfilled, we're less ... like, we're more generous. You know? It's like nobody's miserable, so everyone's willing to take care of each other. Like it ... we all have our place. There are many roles.
Lauren: Yeah, it's a ripple effect. And I think, you know, similar to last season, towards the end when we talked about social media, because so many of us are balancing a ... having a creative practice and making what we want to make with being so publicly perceived, I think it's a really tricky like psychological thing to balance. At least in my own life it is. I think that ... oh my God, did I lose thought? No, come back thought. Please, please, please come back. It was really good. Oh, that's what I was going to say, it's back.
Okay. What I've been telling myself is the thing ... whatever you want to make, whatever you feel called to make, you should make it and you should share it. Because whatever that thing is, whether it's a style challenge, whether it's a passion project. Any kind of art or design, you sharing that, someone's going to see it out there. It could be shown to anyone at this point, algorithmically, right? Anyone. Someone who loves it, someone who hates it. You doing that is going to be like a healing balm for someone. It is going to give someone ... it's a love letter to someone. Someone is going to give someone permission to do that thing themselves, to light up, to start the chain reaction of wonderful creativity that you were talking about.
And simultaneously someone is going to see it and probably think the thing about you that you're worried that they're going to think about you. And it'll pass and you will survive and it will be okay. That's what I've been telling myself, is like both exist at the same time. Anything that you share, anyone can see it. You can't create from a place of wondering what will people think. It's almost like taking one step forward and two steps back or shutting it down before you even start. There's no point in being the critic before you even put pen to paper.
Rachael: I think that might be what we talked about in literal season one, episode one is you can't please everyone, so you shouldn't try to. Do the thing, lean so hard into the thing that lights you up and you're the only one you have to impress and fulfill.
Okay, I'll ask you the question. Now that we've removed ourselves from the segue, we'll ask the question and then start wrapping up. The question is something that has been circulating on Instagram that started on TikTok. I'm not on TikTok, so I have to wait like the millennial that I am to get it on Instagram. And it's a question that someone posted to their audience, I don't know who the original creator was. I saw someone else talking about a creator. Did I remember to look at the caption? No. I was just like, "Wow, that's such a great idea." The question is, if your life's movie were being played and I were the audience, what would I be screaming at you to do? You know, I think the first thing that comes to our mind is the thing that we know that we should do. When I listened to, read this question, the first thing that came to mind was when I've dated some pretty shitty dudes.
Lauren: Break up with him.
Rachael: Yeah, break up with him. You know that and this is something to prompt your gut to react. And I want to know your answer.
Lauren: Ooh, I really ... you asked me this question when we were brainstorming for this episode. I don't know why I didn't come up with an answer beforehand.
Rachael: Love that. Well, you can think because I am actually really struggling to answer this question, which I think is a good sign.
Lauren: I think that is a good sign, yeah.
Rachael: Because I think that I am, in the past handful of years, starting to give myself permission to pursue the things that I want. I am letting go of the expectations of others a little bit more. I think I'm truly living the life that I'm wanting to live and working toward goals, of course. But like there are no screaming inside gut reactions that are like, you should be doing this. And I think that that means that I'm naturally taking the steps. And so my movie is probably pretty boring to watch because there's no like, why are you doing that? Kind of thing.
Lauren: Yeah, there's nothing like glaring like, I think another way I've heard that kind of prompt framed is if you have a friend who can mirror it back to you, it's always helpful of if there's something you've been saying, you want to write your screenplay tomorrow, right? If there's something you've been saying you want to do over and over and over again, but you haven't done it, that's probably the thing that someone's going to be screaming at you to do.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: I mean, breakups are easy ones. For me, I think off the top of my head, the closest answer I have is something that I'm, as we're recording this, in the process of. But by the time this comes out, will have been completed.
Rachael: Wow.
Lauren: I know.
Rachael: Sad.
Lauren: By the time this comes out, I will have moved back to New York and we will be in different cities officially, but we'll still see each other a lot. But basically, I've known it for a while, but it took me longer to kind of process the closure of my life here in Detroit. I moved here with a former partner eight years ago, which is so wild. But our relationship ended and I think it just took me a while to process this chapter of my life. And I'm just ready for a new one. And I'm excited about it. I'm scared, but I'm excited. And I'm finally doing it, like I made a decision, I chose a move date. And I don't really know what's next, but I'm open and things are moving.
I think when we first started talking about it, when I made the decision, I don't know, late last year. And then we started planning out the season, it felt nice to finally set a date and make a choice. And I spent all of 2024 just kind of stewing on it, simmering on it, not quite sure. I kept waiting for ... I had this narrative in my mind that, oh, I'll move back to New York ... when I'm making more money, when the conditions are perfect, when the stars align.
And I realized that the stars were never going to align. And that actually, it was liberating in a way because I was like, oh, actually it's going to be worse if I wait for this moment that I have no control over, I may as well just go for it and kind of be in the driver's seat. And as long as my basic ... I have confidence that I can take care of my basic needs. I'm not going to put myself in a crazy dire situation. I'm going to make it work and I'm just ready to get back in there. And so that's maybe the thing that people would have been screaming at me last year, but that's what's in progress now.
Rachael: Yeah. And I'm so proud of you and excited for you-
Lauren: Thank you.
Rachael: And sad that you won't be 10 minutes away from me.
Lauren: I know.
Rachael: But I know also visited you a lot when you were in New York for culinary school. And I'm just really excited to do that again. I will visit a lot.
Lauren: I think similar to what we were talking about in this episode, like everything happens all at once. Like I am so excited for this next chapter, but I'm also scared. And I'm also like, I had a friend ask me how I'm feeling about the move and I was like, "I'm honestly feeling kind of sad." I can be excited about it and also like grieving at the same time.
Rachael: Yeah, yeah.
Lauren: Both feelings exist at once. But I've made a decision and that feels good because now I can make more decisions based off of that. Versus I felt like I was very much floating for the last year.
Rachael: And I think that that situation also applies to creativity because so many people wait to pursue a creative hobby until they have more time, they have more money, they take a class, they have more information. Like you just got to start. You have to give yourself permission to make a decision. And then if it's not the right one, you adapt and you make another decision. If you find a terrible apartment and you're stuck in it, you will figure out what to do next. I think you're going to find the perfect unicorn of an apartment that serves all of your needs and more.
Lauren: I think we're going to make it work and I think it's going to be just fine.
Rachael: Yeah, it is.
Lauren: We're adaptable. It's going to be good. And I mean, it's similar to what we talked about in one of the previous seasons about like getting stuck in tutorial hell.
Rachael: Yes.
Lauren: That's a version of waiting for the perfect moment because instead of doing it, you watch other people do it until you feel ready. But the truth is you'll never really feel ready. And so you just kind of got to go for it. And then like by doing the thing, you will then figure out the next step will appear.
Rachael: Amazing. I'm excited for you.
Lauren: Thank you.
Rachael: Yeah. Okay, so before we wrap up today, we have an exciting announcement. So we have been self-funded for season one and season two, and we'll continue to be for season three. We don't have any sponsors. We're not opposed to any sponsors, so if you're listening, hit us up. But we want it to be the right situation. And we also, the three of us that create this podcast, all care about doing a really good job. And so we were trying to brainstorm ways to allow you to support us. And we have created a Patreon like every other podcast out there. Yay.
So if you are willing and interested in supporting us in that way, we've got some treats over on Patreon. There are a couple of different tiers. You can get access to behind the scenes footage like us fixed-
Lauren: More bummed hole content.
Rachael: More bummed hole content. I-
Lauren: Not that kind. Bummed.
Rachael: Depression hole. Yeah, you'll get maybe the uncut episodes where we just cackle, some behind the scenes stuff. Maybe some of our not actually appropriate conversations that eventually get cut. And then some of the tiers have discounts on my and Lauren's courses, as well. So in addition to our comedic genius, also we have our real creative content on there too.
Lauren: Yeah, we're going to get creative with what we offer on Patreon because I don't know, I've had an aversion to doing Patreon in any aspect of my business for the longest time because a never ending subscription always intimidated me. But I talked with Rachael and Kristle and we're going to figure out a way to do it that feels fun. Like we've talked about in previous seasons, doing new creative things with friends can oftentimes make it feel less daunting. So if you're hitting a wall, get together with some pals and talk it through. And I'm excited to try it.
Rachael: Yeah, me too. And I think like we are giving ourselves permission to explore it in different ways. Like we don't have to do exactly the same tiers that other podcasts do. We're going to get creative. It's going to be a chance for you to get to know us a little bit more, submit questions.
Lauren: To give us money.
Rachael: To give us money, to support us. And if you're not able to give us money, that is totally okay. But we would love it if you could share your favorite episode of the podcast, whether it's from the upcoming season three or previous episodes. And maybe give us a like and subscribe on YouTube. Also rating us wherever you listen to the podcast. All of those things are free ways to support us, that just help us find more chaotic creatives.
Lauren: Yeah because let's be honest, everyone has a chaotic creative person in their life who's going through it. And maybe all of our ramblings could be of some help.
Rachael: Yeah. Maybe you have three of them who decide to make a podcast. I wouldn't classify Kristle as a chaotic creative. I think you're very organized and on top of things.
Lauren: Everyone's chaos manifests in different ways.
Rachael: That's true.
Lauren: I think Kristle's a chaotic creative, but in a different way than you. Ours is a little more external.
Rachael: Ooh, yeah.
Lauren: Kristle's chaos is-
Rachael: Internal.
Lauren: Here. The only reason I know this, and I know she's not offended by this because I've known her for a lot longer, is just most creative people have inner turmoil and it just manifests in different ways.
Rachael: And that's why we're artists.
Lauren: Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. Isn't it?
Rachael: We have to let it out. Now that we're done nicely bullying Kristle.
Lauren: We love you.
Rachael: We love you. You're amazing and perfect.
Lauren: You're a genius.
Rachael: And do everything to make this successful.
Lauren: We love the way that your chaos manifests.
Rachael: Yeah. And ours. And on that note, welcome to season three. We'll see you next time.
Lauren: Thanks for being here. Bye.