Rachael was brimming with excitement after her experience at this year’s Alt Summit. As she shared the details with Lauren, a discussion unfolded about all of the places to find your people and the magic of face-to-face meetings. Consider this a more extended answer to a listener question from the previous episode about finding connection around your creative passions and hobbies. Your chaotic creative gals explore the benefits of gathering, navigating forming adult bonds, and being clear on the types of communities you are interesting in joining or forming yourself.
Rachael was brimming with excitement after her experience at this year’s Alt Summit. As she shared the details with Lauren, a discussion unfolded about all of the places to find your people and the magic of face-to-face meetings. Consider this a more extended answer to a listener question from the previous episode about finding connection around your creative passions and hobbies. Your chaotic creative gals explore the benefits of gathering, navigating forming adult bonds, and being clear on the types of communities you are interesting in joining or forming yourself.
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The transcript for this episode can be found here!
Lauren: Hi. You know how we're always yapping on this podcast about trying new things in your creative business? This episode is brought to you by one of my creative experiments, my Mural Mockups. You get 10 high resolution Photoshop mockups with easy to edit smart objects, which in non-creative dorkspeak, means that you can drag your drawing into the mockup and it'll instantly make your art look like a mural on a real wall. Pretty cool, right?
Fun fact, Kristle, who you all know and love as the editor of this podcast, shot all of the photos for these mockups. So I love that. These mockups are perfect for muralists and aspiring muralists who want to shorten the time it takes them to add mural images to their portfolios, and present their work to clients. You can head to homsweethom.com/mural-mockups or the link in the episode description to check them out. Okay, now back to the show.
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Lauren: You're not going to start a podcast with everybody that you meet, and that's okay too.
Rachael: Yeah, that was top tier friendship ranking. Thank you.
Lauren: Hello, and welcome to Chaotic Creatives, the show about embracing the chaos that comes from living a creative life.
Rachael: We're your hosts, two self-proclaimed, chaotic, creative gals. I'm Rachael Renae. I'm an artist and a creativity coach.
Lauren: And your internet hype gal. And I am Lauren Holm, better known as Hom Sweet Hom on the internet. I am a designer, lettering artist, muralist and chef, and welcome.
Rachael: Welcome. Today we are kind of talking about a few different topics that sort of create the Venn diagram of connection, I would say.
Lauren: We've touched on all of these throughout the previous seasons, but in our planning we were like, "Oh, this is the perfect thing," because you just got back from a creative conference and you're feeling real energized, and we've gotten questions over the last couple of seasons about how to build community, how to network, how to meet your people, and you just got back from an experience like that, so we wanted to talk about it.
Rachael: Absolutely. Yeah. I went to Alt Summit, which it was their 10th year, and I think it started as kind of a place for bloggers to meet up and talk about that as an income stream and a career, because it was kind of... Did you do this? Like, in college, I remember having all the blogs bookmarked and I would look forward to each day. I would go and I would read through Design Sponge or the wedding ones, because I loved stationery, so I loved looking at the weird stationery that people did. Did you do that?
Lauren: I did it a little bit. I read Taylor Lorenz's book, I think it's called Extremely Online, something like that, where it was about basically the history of internet culture and how we got to where we are today. And she talks about the blogging era as a really pivotal moment, especially for women making money on the internet and how it was, again, people sharing their lives, usually focusing on one topic or just lifestyle, the concept of a lifestyle blogger-
Rachael: Totally.
Lauren: ... was born and there was a lot of mommy bloggers too, and it was just people earnestly sharing, and then brands started creeping in and people started turning them into real lucrative businesses, because wherever there are eyeballs, there's typically money. Bloggers were the ones who got the first wave of backlash against like, "How dare you monetize or turn this into a business?" Which came for influencers later on social media, and I think it was just a really interesting, not too far back history of how we got to the internet culture that we have now, but yeah, that totally makes sense that they would start a in-person conference to talk about creating writing and posting photos on the internet. That makes a lot of sense to me.
Rachael: I think a lot of people, we connected early, even Instagram, not even considering the blog space, but we found accounts that were really cool and we followed them, and-
Lauren: They felt like friends.
Rachael: Yeah. And so, I love that they have created this conference and this is the 10th one or maybe 10th year, and they missed some years in there during COVID, but it was fantastic. I went by myself and I was kind of hyping myself up to be like, "Okay, you are going to wear that extrovert mask," and I'm a gabber. We know I'm a gabber, especially-
Lauren: What?
Rachael: Who, me? Especially with people I know and I get energized by. But at my day job conferences historically, I kind of go to the session, I learn about the topic being presented, and then I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to use this opportunity to go back to my room and read a book." You came with me to a conference once and we just went back to the room and just, I don't know, did we get takeout? We hung out. You took a bath.
Lauren: Yeah, I took a bath in the tub next to you in the bed.
Rachael: Yeah, the tub wasn't in the bathroom. It was like a honeymoon suite, but I was like, "Well, I don't want to-"
Lauren: It was like a swinger suite. I don't know what that was. And it was at a water park. I don't know what, I'm so grateful that you brought me.
Rachael: It was fun. It was fun. I mean, to have uninterrupted gab time on the drive there, plus we went thrifting and found a bunch of great stuff. It was a great trip, but historically what I've done is learn, chat with people at lunch and then I'm like, "Okay, I'm out." And this conference, I was like, "Oh my gosh, these are my people."
Because anytime, even from walking from my room to the elevator to go down to the lobby, someone would be in the elevator and we would start chatting, and then we would walk, and then we would sit and have breakfast together and then other people would join the table, and it was just so warm and welcoming. There was no feeling of competition, of like, "Ooh, sizing you up, because there's not enough money on the internet for me and you to do this."
It was not that at all. There's so many people that incorporate play into their practices or their coaching, or their offerings that I was just jazzed, and we've been texting and sharing resources. I have not shared my phone number this much ever, and I found myself being like, "Is it okay if we, can I give you my number?" And then I'm like, "This is like dating, but so much better."
Lauren: I love it. I mean, in previous episodes we've talked about how our best tips, instead of networking to meet other creatives, think about it friend-making and approach people with curiosity and ask about them, and be genuinely interested in what they've got going on. I think the beauty of a creative conference or a creative event is that the filtration process to get in there is like, "Hey, do you identify as a creative person or maker?" I think that you all speak the same language already, so there's already a shared point of connection.
Rachael: Yes.
Lauren: So I think that that makes a lot of sense to me, and that's really great. And when we first started talking about this, it's so easy in person to see someone's full humanity and how like, "Oh, well, you incorporate play into your messaging." But we're so different in all these other ways and there is enough space for all of us, where as when you are scrolling on your phone at 11 PM right before bed, feeling kind of down about your day and you stumble across, let's say the same person's Instagram profile for the first time, you're bringing your worst projections onto their profile thinking like, "Oh no, this person does what I do," and you're judging them and you're like, "No, I have to be better than them, and she can't take this little sliver I've carved out for myself." And it's such a different perspective encountering someone online versus in person. And so, we've talked about this before, but getting offline and trying to meet people in person is such a nourishing experience, necessary too.
Rachael: Absolutely. And I think, yeah, I love what you said because even today, I was scrolling on Instagram and someone shared something with me that was about play, and I had this feeling of I'm too late, I'm not doing it fast enough. I'm like, I'm not implementing my ideas fast enough. And had that person shared that information with me in person, I would've been like, "Oh my God, I'm so jazzed for you." Because of the human connection, I left feeling very inspired and there were a lot of conversations about community. It's like people who are starting hobby clubs. I met a friend calling them all friends. I truly feel so connected to these women and it rules.
Lauren: It's like how you and I became fast friends. We met on the internet eight, nine years ago.
Rachael: Yeah, I was a fan, and I told that story. Someone knew who you were or knew of you, because someone introduced himself as a muralist, and I was like, "My podcast co-host is a muralist," because it's one of your titles. And I was like, "Do you know who this is?"
And she was like, "Oh, yeah."
And I was like, "I met Lauren, because I did hand lettering and I followed her, and she seemed cool and she and her partner were considering moving to Detroit, and I was like, 'Can I take you out for a coffee?' And we chatted, and that's how we became friends."
So I think putting in effort to build community outside of the internet is so nourishing, like you said, but there were so many people there who were working on different aspects of building in-person communities or online too. Yeah, my friend who had just mentioned, Haley, she created a hobby club where she sends out a hobby prompt, maybe weekly, and then there's another gal, her name was also Rachel. I met a lot of Rachaels, which is fun-
Lauren: But anyone with your spelling?
Rachael: No. And she's based in Atlanta, and she started doing creative meetups and I think it's called Creative Spaghetti.
Lauren: They eat spaghetti?
Rachael: No, but it's like, oh, shoot, I'm going to get it wrong. But basically, when I gave her my business card, which the bingo business cards were so well received, it made me so happy. People were so excited and it made it easier for me to share my information. So instead of being like, "Here's my info," I was like, "Oh, I made an activity for us."
Lauren: Something you're excited to talk about, yeah.
Rachael: But Rachael, her business card said, "Create, play, grow."
And my messaging is, "Play, grow, connect." So, so many just overlapping messages and people trying to grow communities. So we thought we could talk about community today too.
Lauren: Yay.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah. I think it's really beautiful, because if you should take that business card or leave behind example, if you saw that as someone's, if that's your Instagram bio and then you see it as someone else's Instagram bio, it might make you clench up being like, "I'm not original, I'm not unique. This person is stepping into my territory."
But in person you're like, "Oh my gosh, me too. This is so crazy that we both have almost the same messaging." It almost feels like serendipitous, whereas online you're just like, "Oh."
Rachael: Yeah. Yeah. It was such a magical experience. And I think it's interesting to hear people talking about building up in-person spaces again. Not from the conference organizer perspective, but from the other creatives that I was talking to-
Lauren: Yeah, in smaller ways.
Rachael: Yeah, just trying to create an in-person community or an online community, where people are craving connection and by pursuing the things that jazz you up and finding other people who are also jazzed at that, that's like it's an easy bridge to cross into connection, I think. So maybe we can segue into talking about what folks can do to build connection, because we did talk about it a little bit in the Q&A episodes. One of them, I don't remember if it was the first or second.
Lauren: Doesn't matter,
Rachael: Doesn't matter, but someone was asking how to build creative community around one particular craft. And before we started recording, you were talking about what you are interested in cultivating or joining when you move to New York.
Lauren: Right. Since I'm preparing for a move to a new city. Well, a city I used to live in and I still have-
Rachael: For not a long time. I mean, not for a long time.
Lauren: Yeah, it's been almost a decade since I lived in New York. And so, even though I'm familiar with it, I have a core group of friends who I went to school with there, but it's like I'm going back at a different phase of my life. And so, I've been journaling and noodling on, I haven't publicly announced that I'm moving back to New York yet. I will have by the time that this episode comes out. So this will be interesting to listen back to.
Rachael: Yeah. Also, I feel like I keep talking about it.
Lauren: No, it's fine. By the time this comes out, it'll be announced, and I've been really thinking about when I do publicly announce it, just you have to let people know what you are looking for. As part of a community, just part of the creative general creative community, people aren't mind readers. We talked about this in, I think the creative advice is relationship advice, vice versa thing. But I want to let people know, "Hey, I'm moving back. Here are some things I'm interested in joining or doing, or building when I come back and is anyone already doing these things, have any connections or is already facilitating this?" So I'd love to volunteer at a community garden or something like that, because after living in Michigan for a while, I got really into gardening. Everyone loves to garden here, which is amazing.
Rachael: Not me.
Lauren: And you've got the space too, which is such a shame. No, I'm kidding.
Rachael: It is a shame. I try every year and I'm like, "I don't like this."
Lauren: It's fine. If I had picked a place to live that was closer to you, I would be using your garden.
Rachael: Yeah, and I would love that.
Lauren: Or if I had just gotten a car when I...
Rachael: That's okay. That's okay.
Lauren: Yeah, I would love to join a dinner party circuit or supper club kind of thing. Any craft clubs people have going on. I would love to connect with other freelancers who love to cook, because I think I mentioned in one of the previous episodes, I've been workshopping this idea that I need to actually do versus talk about. But I as a freelancer cook a lot during the day, because I have lulls in my work week. I have a weird schedule, as most freelancers do. And so, I would love to connect with other creative freelancers who want to cook during the day and hang out, and again, network that way.
But just hang out and make a meal, and freeze the leftovers for dinner when you have a deadline later on in the week or maybe next month. And we were talking about this, because I was listening to a set from one of my favorite comedians who I've mentioned before on this podcast, Josh Johnson, and he was talking about how people oftentimes are mirrors to the kind of energy that you bring to them. So he was talking about this in the context of being neighborly and how people aren't as neighborly anymore. We don't know our neighbors. And he was saying that if you introduce yourself to your neighbors and let them know, "Hey, I'm here if you need anything," people will oftentimes do the same for you, but you have to be the first one to say, "Hey, I'm available."
And I've been thinking a lot about that as someone who has facilitated creative challenges before and built community in that way. I'm craving that in person and I have a large online, I guess following now, and I'm trying to figure out a way to use that or engage with that, but also take some of that offline. I think that this podcast being born after nine years of friendship is really beautiful. Even though we met on the internet, that's what internet connections are, for the same reason that people go on dating apps to ultimately meet offline, hopefully.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: I think those are where some of the best connections come from. So I'm planning on putting my connection wish list out there when I move back to New York. And I think that oftentimes big life changes like a move are catalysts for putting yourself out there in this way. But for anyone who's listening, you don't need a big move to another city to post an Instagram story or reach out to your network, or even just make a post, or send an email out to whoever you might know, even if it's a handful of people saying, "Here's what I'm looking to do or connect with, or build. Does anyone have any hookups or any, can anyone point me in any directions?"
I might be looking for a art studio to work in someday, a ceramic studio to take classes at. I just want to start sending out feelers. Maybe I'll need a commercial kitchen to prepare food in at some point. I don't know. But I figured now is the time to get those things circulating for when I need them. Because when I was younger, like at lunch today, I was talking with Kristle about how when I was 24, I did my will letter for lunch project, where I walked around New York handing out flyers to restaurants, offering to do their chalkboard signs. And that was a way of networking or getting my name out there that wasn't tied to the internet. And I made so many restaurant connections and got so many jobs just from that. And sometimes I forget now at 34 that I still have that ability to do that. I've just, 10 years into my career, I've been coasting on the, I guess compound interest of just people knowing who I am and I guess putting in the work of building my business, but there's nothing stopping me from doing that again.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: And I think a push of that would be nice.
Rachael: Absolutely. And I think you being really clear on what types of communities you're looking for is very important. And I think that that's something that I would challenge anyone listening or watching to do, is to make that wish list, even if you're not doing a big move, because it's, I think, easy to fall into established routines, especially as adults with limited free time. And it can feel maybe disheartening or draining if you're okay, you're with a group of people that go out to the bar and you don't drink, and you go, because you have something to do, because it's a social activity. But maybe that's not fulfilling to you.
Lauren: Those aren't your people.
Rachael: Those aren't your people. And maybe they are in a certain capacity, but I can say that I have a lot of different groups of friends and I feel like what I've talked about so many times on the podcast is feeling over committed to my social calendar. And I think it's like, I'm not saying that you should stop hanging out with your friends. I'm saying that you should get really clear on the types of community that you would like to build if you're looking for new community or just new ways to connect with the people that you already know, is your habit with one certain friend to just go out to dinner every time, but you're not really feeling that. Ask them to do a craft instead. "Hey, actually I know we usually go out to dinner and that's how we connect, but can we do an activity instead? Can we go for a walk?"
Think about how you want to be spending your time. And that's why I talk about play so much, because when you're playing, you're like, "Oh, I'm really fulfilled doing this thing." And when we can identify what those things are for you, it's maybe cooking during the day, volunteering in the community garden, finding your version of play. Mine is like, I loved it when I played basketball with a group of people, even though I didn't really know any of them. It was really fun, but then it kind of got disbanded. Everybody got busy and I miss it. Or I'm trying to gather some people who might be interested in beginner knitting, but I don't need to start a knitting club.
There are people who are already doing that. So I think it's a matter of, like you said, putting feelers out. There's a gal, Jenna, who took my Prioritize Play workshop and she was sharing that she was in a subreddit for her city, and she was looking for ways to connect with other women in their 30s who were wanting to do activities together. And she couldn't find one, so she created one. And now it's this big group of women who pick an activity and meet up, and she's met some of her best friends through that program. So it's a little bit of look what's out there, because a lot of people are interested in doing a lot of the same things. Your people are out there, but if you can't find it, can you build something? Can you find a way to, even if it's like you host something at the library in a public space, you don't have to put yourself out there and have it be so scary. Maybe you can do some programming through another avenue.
But I also wanted to mention, you were talking about the comedian Josh saying people mirror back to you what you present to them. And I saw something recently online where it was a woman talking very specifically, articulating her process for making friends as an adult. And she put it into a formula where it's like you meet someone, you ask, "Do you come here often?"
And then if it's like your kid's playing at this park at this particular time and you meet another mom, and then you go back at that same time, is that same person there? Like, you kind of align routines. And then I haven't looked at this in a while, so this is just from memory. But then she was like, once we do that a couple of times, I ask if they want to do something tangential to what they were doing. Oh, do you want to have a playdate with our kids or do you want to get lunch together, or do you want to grab coffee and go for a walk on the way to the park? So that it's an easy entry-
Lauren: It's not like, "Do you want to go bowling all the way from going to the playground?"
Rachael: From your daytime plate, yeah. So it's easy entry, but it's expanding and having more one-on-one time. And then, she says she brings them food, which I feel like is a very you thing to make friends.
Lauren: Oh, yeah.
Rachael: "Hey, I made some cookies. Here's some cookies." And then she says she asks them for help, because like we were talking about before, people like helping. If someone has a problem and I can help them solve it, I love it. I love to solve a problem for people and provide physical labor of like-
Lauren: You heard that folks. Rachael's available for manual labor.
Rachael: You need me to help you put together a bed? I would love to. I hate doing it alone for myself, but I will love to help someone else do it.
Lauren: That is true. I did offer over the summer to help you put IKEA furniture together.
Rachael: You did. We put five dressers together, Lauren. That's a lot. And you helped me paint my bedroom.
Lauren: I do love painting. I don't love building IKEA furniture, but I offered, because I like, "Hey, we were going to chat anyways. Let's get one of your chores done. I have hands."
Rachael: Yeah, and I so appreciated it, because it was an overwhelming task for me, but we got to, I don't know, bullshit and talk about whatever we talked about. So asking for help is allowing someone else to feel like they can support you. And oftentimes it's like nobody wants to be the first one to ask for help. So by doing that, you're also showing vulnerability, which can allow for deeper connection. And I think that that's one of the things that I'm learning in my sort of recent dating experience, is that a lot of people that I've been courting...
Lauren: Casanova.
Rachael: Yeah, I mean, there's not a lot at once, but the past few have said that I make it really easy for them to be vulnerable, which is important to me. I love talking about the things that I'm working on. Personal growth is so important to me, but also deep connection is important to me. I don't want to just talk about the weather. I want to know how you see yourself deep down or what your dreamiest, biggest goals are for yourself.
And so, it's important to offer that vulnerability, so that they can mirror it back to you, and then that allows for a deeper connection. And then, also if you do all of that and then you're like, "Oh, I don't actually think you're my people," that's okay too. You can decide what level of friendship you want with people, but I think ultimately all of this boils down to building community in spaces that feel very natural and inspiring or fulfilling for you to be in. Because if I joined a volunteer garden club, I would not want to go. I would feel resistance every time I signed up for a shift, and I probably wouldn't be connecting with people as much as I would be connecting with someone on the basketball court.
Lauren: Because you're not in a space that's making you feel like your most alive self.
Rachael: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not the most authentic version of me.
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Rachael: This episode is brought to you by me, Rachael Renae, your creativity coach. Did you know that I offer one-on-one sessions? One of my favorite things is to help my fellow chaotic creatives gain a little bit of clarity in their creative practices and their lives. So you can book a session today. We can develop or refine your creative project idea. We can clarify your creative goals. We can map out what your big juicy life looks like, or we can build a system for prioritizing play and making it easy for you to incorporate. If you'd like to book a session, you can visit rachaelrenae.com, that's R-A-C-H-A-E-L R-E-N-A-E .com/coaching.
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Rachael: To make it a call to action to the listeners. Ask yourself the questions of what do I like doing? And that's why I make the seasonal playlist. It's like, let me try a bunch of stuff, because you don't know until you try, and then write it down and be honest with yourself, and then see if you can try to seek out those spaces.
Lauren: Yeah. I think that when it comes to creating connection, letting people know, "Hey, I like doing this activity. Does anyone else want to do this activity too?"
I think creative activities are like ripe for the picking when it comes to this, because oftentimes art stuff is done in isolation and for good reason. You need to focus. You're deep in thought. Sometimes you're using tools that could actually hurt you if you're not paying attention. There's a real beauty to getting into the zone alone. Sometimes you can't get into a flow state when you're gabbing. It's a different thing.
Rachael: It is.
Lauren: And so, we're not saying to replace solitude and flow state with people around all the time. I think most creative people I know like their introverted time. However, I think art making is oftentimes, because it's done in isolation so often, we get, like you said, as adults get used to a routine. In order to connect with more people who are obsessed with the things you're obsessed about, you need to find a way to do that with other people. And so, whether it's going to an art show about the thing that you like or it's making the thing, make some crafts and some art forms are harder to make together, I'm sure, or ceramics, going to a studio, signing up for a class.
I know that might cost money, but I think that figuring out ways where you can, if you like doing it alone and you want to connect with other people who like to do that thing, yes, you could go on an online forum or connect that way, or in the YouTube comments of ceramics videos or whatnot, but trying to get together in person will make you feel a lot more tapped in, especially with your local community. And even knowing just one person who does the creative thing that you do or like to do will likely open the door to, they have to know one other person too. And I think that building a followed creative network happens slowly over time. Nothing happens overnight. And like you were saying too, not everyone's going to be a 10 out of 10 match. You're not going to start a podcast with everybody that you meet, and that's okay too.
Rachael: Yeah, that was top tier friendship ranking. Thank you.
Lauren: Yeah. And yeah, the call to action is just figure out what you like to do and try to find other people to do it with. Invite other people to do it with you, even if it's just small. Can you get your roommates together to do a craft night? Can you get your coworkers together? Can you get your building together for a community craft night? Community can be tiny, as tiny as two or three people, and it can be as large as a whole city. It is really up to you.
Rachael: Yeah. And then, I think once you establish those relationships, use them. Don't let it be just like, "Oh, that's just my friend that I do crafts with once a month." It's like-
Lauren: It's the inroad.
Rachael: Yeah, yes. The inroad.
Lauren: Connecting over the creative stuff I think is a really strong bond, similar to the experience you had at Alt Summit, where it's like, "Oh my gosh, we already have so much in common."
Having that strong bond of connecting over create a creative thing will allow you, oftentimes it's a stronger bridge I think to other things. And it reminds me, I've referenced this book before, but it's very relevant to the conversation we're having now. The Art of Gathering by Priya Parker, I believe. She talks about how to host successful gatherings basically, and the small elements that make things feel like... Like, what makes a good meeting or event, or dinner party versus one that's kind of like, eh. People didn't have that great of a time. They didn't really connect.
And one thing she really drives home is specificity of who this event is for and who it's not for. And she actually says, which is a tough pill for me to swallow as someone who finds yourself gravitating towards inclusivity, everyone is welcome. And it's true, everyone is creative. However, in the context of let's say a creative gathering, you will likely create more connection if you are very specific about what kind of creative gathering this is. Is this a craft night for night owls? You're going to get a specific type of person. You're not going to get-
Rachael: I will not be there.
Lauren: I know, you will not be there, and maybe you and I would meet at a different event and still become great friends. Is this for professionals? Is it for hobbyists? The more you curate the group, the more tightly curated it is, the better connection, even though it's going to be a smaller group more likely, the stronger the connections will likely be, because the filtration system you've set up for people to even show up or to want to show up, even if it's a free event let's say, is going to allow for people when they walk through that door to be like, "Oh, everyone meets these kind of criteria and these are more likely to be my people."
Rachael: Man, that is related also to dating, because the more specific he can be about upfront what we're looking for, it weeds people out faster that aren't a right fit, whereas the people pleaser, the person inside me wants to be like, "I want to give everyone a chance. I can look past these things that I actually don't want about this person," because I want to be nice, but actually being kind is more important, which is letting them down and not letting them get attached, and being kinder to myself, and sometimes kind has hard conversations associated with it, where nice is people pleasing.
I'm trying to have that differentiation, not just with dating, but in general. I think, and we've talked about this with just creating our work too, the more that we can lean into being very specific, we ourselves authentically, it might not be for everyone, but none of us are for everyone. And so, why would you create a 100-person dinner when you have to manage all of these personalities, and do this and this and this, instead of creating a very specific guest list? And that's not to say that you won't have a different set of guests at another party. I feel like I've had that challenge of like, oh, I want to have a girl's night, but I have a lot of friends, and I'm like, am I ranking my friends now? It's like, just invite who naturally feels good to invite, and if someone has hurt feelings, we can address that if that comes up. It probably won't. I don't know. Does that make sense?
Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. She talks about setting parameters for your event. I mean, you would appreciate this, even if it's something like there's a dress code, you have to wear a certain color or a certain accessory, or if it's like everyone has to bring a certain food item or there's just a certain theme, and she says that the more you stick to those things, the more sacred the event becomes too. And the more jazz people tend to get about it. Think about how excited people get about a Halloween party, because of the tight parameters of you're going to wear a costume. There's going to be a spooky little punch with the, what is it? The spooky mist.
Rachael: The spooky mist. Yeah.
Lauren: I'm trying to speak your language right now.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: There's going to be something shaped like an eyeball.
Rachael: Totally. Yeah. Dry ice.
Lauren: Lauren's going to show up on your doorstep a day before.
Rachael: My favorite.
Lauren: I'm saying this, because I showed up to Rachael's Halloween party the day before one time, already fully dressed. Rachael text me, she's like, "I can see you on my ring camera."
Rachael: It's tomorrow. I was at a different party.
Lauren: Whoops.
Rachael: And that was a sweet story that we can tell forever. Yeah. I really appreciate the type parameters. Also, just thinking about by making those type parameters, we're also leveling up the type of experience that people are having.
Lauren: Yes. It's a kindness to your guests, she says. By actually saying who this is not for you are protecting who it is for. And so, this isn't something from the book, but I've heard this phrase before that clarity is kindness and it speaks to the people-pleasing thing you were saying of knowing what you want, saying what yes or no versus maybe you even did this for me, which I loved one time, this was maybe a couple of weeks ago, where you asked if we could record early, and I started to do that thing where I was like, and you were like, "That sounds like a no." And I was like, "Uh huh." And that was helpful-
Rachael: I don't even remember doing that.
Lauren: Yeah. I was so helpful. You basically gave me permission to say no. I was like, "Well, maybe I could move some things around."
Rachael: Yeah. And I also want to have the types of relationships where my friends are comfortable saying no to me, because I would rather it be like both of us showing up fully for each other instead of-
Lauren: Performing a version of yourself that you think is agreeable.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: Yeah.
Rachael: Yeah. I love that. But back to the type of party, I love to host, don't love to cook as you know, love to have an experience, whether it's a little gift basket.
Lauren: Yeah. Place cards, place settings, table scape.
Rachael: Exactly. That's really fun for me. And I think what I enjoy about the hosting of a party is getting to make that experience magical, and I am trying to do that in my everyday life as well. There's no reason that I can't have a cute table scape for every day. I can use my fancy glasses when I'm drinking water at lunchtime and reading my book. Giving people an opportunity to see like, "Oh my gosh, it's not even a Halloween party. This is just a backyard dinner party. But look how fun. We're eating hot dogs, but I'm having the best time, because of the attention and intention, attention to detail and intention behind the party and the gathering." And I want to carry that sort of mentality throughout my life, just being very intentional, focusing on connection. Yeah.
Lauren: You're a great hostess, by the way.
Rachael: Thank you so much. Thank you. The last party I hosted was a doozy.
Lauren: I mean, that was based on a life circumstance.
Rachael: Yes.
Lauren: But I still had fun. Hey, and I guess it kind of inspired the first episode of this season.
Rachael: It did, yes. I was in a depressive episode and I got Kristle's gift exchange gift, and I've been playing it. It's fun. So that was great. And poor Lauren got my gift exchange gift. She's not a hat or hair accessory person. My gift that I gave everybody was hair clips. She's not a stuff person, not really a bag person. And I think there were two bags and some socks in there, just literally nothing that she would use.
Lauren: It was a hilarious gift, because it was a bag which I gave to Kristle, it got put to good use, a pair of socks that I was already influencer gifted. I'm sure they reached out to you too.
Rachael: You asked me that and I wasn't gifted that pair, but I had purchased from them, and those were one of them. And then they gifted me another pair, like a roughly sheer kind of pair.
Lauren: Nice.
Rachael: Yeah. So you already had received the socks.
Lauren: I mean, I like the socks. The best part of that gift for me was the little scrubby pad for my dishes.
Rachael: Oh, okay. Good. So there's one thing that you can use. Good.
Lauren: A dish scrubby pad.
Rachael: It was sparkly. Yeah. It's also really funny to see what people fought over, which was like my friend Katie brought-
Lauren: A great Jones, like ceramic bakeware, eight by eight pan.
Rachael: So cute. Yeah, that was good.
Lauren: And technically over the limit, but she said she got it on sale, so like...
Rachael: Yeah. How does that play into the rules? Because everyone, if you bought an iPad-
Lauren: Sneaky, sneaky.
Rachael: ... on sale, everyone's going to want the iPad versus the $20 gift.
Lauren: We'll let it slide. I don't know.
Rachael: Yeah.
Lauren: I really don't know.
Rachael: She really got a lot of joy out of it being the sought after gift, so I love that for her.
Lauren: And I got a dish scrubby. Kristle, what did you get? Tea. It was like a nice tin of tea, right? Yeah. I used to think that gifts that were silly until I changed my mind, maybe in my late 20s, because I realized, actually shout out to my ex, Tom. He actually reframed this for me, because you know me, I'm not a stuff person. And again, the people who know you best and love you can kind of mirror things back at you, because I'm such a practical only if I need it, a very utility person, because I just grew up around my frugal grandma. One year for I think the holidays, he gave me a gift card to the grocery store and I was like, "What is this for?"
And he was like, "I want you to spend this on all the things that you never buy on a weekly basis."
Rachael: Okay, that's very sweet. I was like, "That's not a very good gift," but with the explanation it is.
Lauren: Yeah. He's like, "Buy the $12 hot sauce, buy the organic whatever, fruit. You are such a practical shopper."And so, that actually, I was like, "Oh, that's actually a really good point."
Rachael: Did you do it?
Lauren: I did.
Rachael: Oh, good.
Lauren: That's actually how I-
Rachael: I could see you being like, "Or I could get more groceries."
Lauren: I could get eight pounds of Clementines on sale. I'm kidding.
Rachael: After we had a discussion recently, I bought vanilla bean paste after we talked about it.
Lauren: I think Kristle needs to be a vanilla bean paste influencer. Actually, I would love to become a vanilla bean paste-
Rachael: Sponsor us, vanilla bean paste. Influencer. Just that not any brand, just vanilla bean paste the product. That's my vertical, but also I haven't used it, and like I'm scared.
Lauren: Oh my God. When Kristle gifted me a jar of it, and it took me so long to start using it, because I was using a store brand vanilla extract, because I took one of Christina Tosi's online baking classes and her baking philosophy is that she comes from a Midwestern, very salt-of-the-earth Americana baking. She's like, "It doesn't really matter that much, the quality of your vanilla," you just want that grandma's baked, good artificial vanilla taste that she likes, or a store-bought sugar cookie. Think about that.
Rachael: Yep. Love those.
Lauren: I had know other chefs who talk about good vanilla. Ina Garten talks about good vanilla and Kristle swears by good vanilla, and I trust Kristle's taste, but because I know how nice of a product it is, it took me a while to start using it. But once you break the seal and start using it, it'll be okay. Yeah. And it's nice and you get little flecks.
Rachael: I think I might make some ice cream with it.
Lauren: So I was reading up on it.
Rachael: Or should I not use-
Lauren: For preparations where there's going to be less heat applied, it's actually even better when there's vanilla bean in it.
Rachael: Yeah, cool. Lauren gave me her ice cream maker last year, two years ago-
Lauren: And I love that you use it so much.
Rachael: Oh, I use it all the time.
Lauren: That makes me so happy.
Rachael: Yeah. My guts on the other hand, don't love that I'm consuming so much heavy cream and full whole milk dairy, but-
Lauren: You can do like a coconut milk version.
Rachael: It's not going to be the same. I know.
Lauren: No.
Rachael: Okay. Let's wrap up with the session that we abandoned for a bit, but are bringing back. What are you working on right now that you're jazzed about?
Lauren: I'm simultaneously jazzed and a little bit sad, because it's a closing of a chapter, but I am excited to be repainting the apartment before-
Rachael: Because you're leaving and you can't leave murals galore.
Lauren: Yeah, so just painting the apartment. I think it's going to be like a peachy orange color, or maybe a blue. I have some colors picked out to swatch this weekend, so I'm really excited.
Rachael: Fun. Yay.
Lauren: Actually, I think I might have them swatched the next time you come in. So you'll see them on Friday.
Rachael: Amazing.
Lauren: Yeah.
Rachael: Amazing.
Lauren: What about you? What are you working on that you're excited about?
Rachael: Oh man. I feel so inspired after that conference.
Lauren: I bet. You're bursting at the seams.
Rachael: Truly one of the nights and every night I was like, "Oh, I'm going to go to bed early, because I'm still on East Coast time and it's very late and I'm tired."
But then I would be walking back to the elevator and start chatting with someone and then we would stand in the lobby for an hour and it was awesome. I loved it. And a couple of times I went out to eat with people, but one of the nights I had leftover pizza, because I had gone to an Italian restaurant and I was like, "I'm just going to eat the leftover pizza. I don't want to waste it. Also, I've been really doing a lot of chatting. I should just chill." Ate the pizza and it was the last night before I was leaving, I was like, "Oh my God, I'm so sad to be leaving."
And also, I really wanted to explore Palm Springs a lot more, but I just, I was so engaged in what was happening there. But I did a big notion, brain dump of a ton of ideas. So I'm excited to, I'm still processing and organizing my ideas, but as far as what I would like to get done, I want to go to this Remix studio on Saturday. I don't have any real plans. I'm maybe going to sell my motorcycle. I'm trying to do that. But other than that, I want to just go play. It's been a long time since I've had a full day with no plans and I'm really doing a lot of side quests in my answer to this question, but-
Lauren: It's fine. You've got a lot going on. We're going to move this big table this weekend.
Rachael: Yeah, we're doing it. I'm so excited. I need to-
Lauren: We're doing a friend stuff exchange.
Rachael: Stuff exchange, yeah.
Lauren: Things that I need and things that you need. You're getting my big art table that you're going to use for quilting, and I'm going to maybe get a rug or some home decor for my new apartment in New York.
Rachael: Yay. Really excited. Lauren's inspired me to get rid of some of this stuff that's not serving you anymore. And I think that actually, just to wrap it up full circle and reconnect with the community, and the discussion about-
Lauren: Thank you.
Rachael: ... what you're interested in. Those interests can change. When I, I don't know, graduated college, I was really obsessed with being a motorcycle person and I got a motorcycle. I took the training course, I rode it. I upgraded to a bigger bike and I rode it. And I love the feeling and the freedom of riding a motorcycle, driving a motorcycle, but I injured myself last two summers ago and didn't really ride it that much. And then last summer, I just never really pulled it out and it wasn't really causing any harm by just sitting in the garage, but I was like, "This isn't actually serving me anymore, and someone else can get some use out of it."
It's okay that my sort of identity has shifted from I want to be a cool motorcycle girl. And now I'm like, I know how to ride a motorcycle. And I know that I enjoy it, but I enjoy other things more. And I think that the more that we can kind of refine, and it's like you said, clarity is kindness. Instead of trying to spread myself so thin to all these different hobbies that sure I can have fun at, and really focusing on the ones that are the most fulfilling to me, I feel like I'm going to get the most out of my life in that way. So selling the motorcycle and organizing the basement, so I can get that table. So setting up my quilting area, doing some ceramics play.
Lauren: Yeah.
Rachael: Jazzed about all the stuff.
Lauren: Very exciting.
Rachael: And the weather's so nice, so I'm just excited to go for walks. Okay, great. Great. Great episode.
Lauren: Yeah, I love that. I'm feeling very energized and I'm feeling so energized that I can do our Patreon plug.
Rachael: Oh, great. I forgot.
Lauren: If you enjoyed this episode, if you've been enjoying this podcast, we would love it if you could support us on Patreon. It's Patreon.com/chaoticcreatives. If you can't, totally fine. You can share this episode with a friend who is looking to connect with other creative people. If you have a friend who's been like, "Man, I really want to meet other creatives," and has said it maybe a couple times, but hasn't really done anything about it, send them this episode. Maybe it'll strike a chord with them. And if you want to join the Patreon, we have a couple tiers where we have some bonus content, maybe we'll do some Q and A's, and then we have our mega tier where it's listener supported ads, where we can shout out your projects so you can head to the show notes to see all the links to that.
Rachael: Yeah. And also, one other way to support us for free is to give us a rating and a review-
Lauren: Yes, please.
Rachael: ... on the podcast platform or on YouTube. And we would really appreciate that.
Lauren: Think of us like your Uber drivers. Give us five stars.
Rachael: Five stars, please. See you next time.
Lauren: Bye.